Naomi Klein Joins the Substack Wild Rumpus
A vital perspective in a turbulent time
I hope you’ll sign up to the Substack that Naomi Klein has launched ahead of the September publication of her 10th book (with coauthor Astra Taylor): End Times Fascism - And the Fight for the Living World. She explains why she’s here:
My hope for this newsletter is that it becomes a place where we can, together, defend the precious and intensely human work of thinking and sense-making. It won’t be a one-way download of my ideas into your brains via a series of polished op-eds, but rather a forum for us to think together, identify patterns, and help one another to better understand these turbulent times in history. [read the post]
Needless to say, as a blogger since 2007, I love this framing. As I’ve long said, navigating complex and consequential issues is like navigating at sea using a sextant, a precise clock and the stars (as we did on the circumnavigating sailboat Wanderlust in 1979-80). The more stars you use, and resulting lines of position you draw on a chart, the closer you are to understanding where you are relative to rocky shores or open safe seas.
I’ve disagreed with Klein on many aspects of climate policy, but I always find her thinking a vital prod to my own. That’s why I’ve added her to the Sustain What track (and tag) “other voices” — folks here or elsewhere with perspectives and expertise on climate and sustainability questions that are distinct from mine - and thus vital to track.
We first interacted after The Nation published her 2011 cover story on “Capitalism vs. the Climate” - the story that formed the foundation for her 2014 bestseller This Changes Everything and the subsequent documentary. Explore our discussion/debate here. As I wrote, “I disagree with her in pretty profound ways, yet some of her points echo my assertion awhile back that greenhouse-driven climate change is “not the story of our time” but a symptom of much deeper issues.”
Here’s her 2014 conversation / debate with David Roberts back in his Grist days:
Here’s Gemini’s breakdown of that video chat:
This video features a discussion between Naomi Klein and David Roberts regarding the arguments in Klein’s book, This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. the Climate, focusing on why addressing climate change necessitates an economic transformation.
Naomi Klein’s assertive points:
Capitalism as a failed system: Klein argues that ‘real-world capitalism’ is a discredited system that ‘venerates greed above all else’ and is actively destabilizing the planet’s life support systems. (0:21 - 1:06)
Short-term emission reduction: She asserts that, based on research regarding global carbon budgets and equity, humanity needs to cut emissions by 8–10% annually, which she believes is antithetical to current free-market systems. (2:45 - 3:17)
Climate as a catalyst: Klein suggests that the climate crisis can serve as a ‘lens’ to drive necessary economic change, as many people already recognize that the current system is failing them in other ways. (4:58 - 5:12)
The necessity of ideological shifts: She argues that the left must ‘engage in battles of ideas’ to normalize radical change, noting that past political victories were always tied to major populist shifts. (6:46 - 7:13)
David Roberts’ assertive questions and responses:
Challenging the framing: Roberts questions why Klein frames the issue specifically as ‘capitalism’ rather than ‘extractivism,’ noting that the word causes people to become defensive. (0:15 - 0:46)
Questioning the solution: Roberts asks if Klein is advocating for ‘highly regulated capitalism’ rather than socialism, and challenges whether adding a ‘spiritual transformation of humanity’ to the climate problem makes it harder to solve. (1:48 - 2:00, 3:55 - 4:02)
Focus on effectiveness: He notes that focusing solely on climate seems to be failing, and asks if her goal is to unify the pushback against the current economic system under a single, more effective banner. (4:13 - 4:27, 5:14 - 5:27)
Finally, here’s Klein on her new book (from her website):
We wanted this book to be available before the November US midterm elections – Astra and I firmly believe in writing books that readers can use, and we dearly hope that the movements rising up against fascist violence and exploitation will find our research and analysis tangibly useful to their vital work.
Tech oligarchs tell us they are summoning demons with their machines, religious extremists celebrate every catastrophe as a ‘sign’ of the coming messiah, and the U.S. government is betting all of our futures on such dark prophecies. The good news is that the vast majority of people, including those who voted for Trump and others like him, reject these apocalyptic worldviews. That’s why this book, though harrowing in parts, is ultimately hopeful: whether we are fighting polluting data centres or opposing forever wars, most of us desperately want a future we can believe in, and leaders who believe in us. Astra and I wrote this book because we are absolutely convinced that the more End Times Fascism is exposed to the light, the weaker its hold will become.
She wrote the most outlandish book on climate change I have ever read.